“I have a passion for growth – one of the things that is critical for the growth of a nation is education”

How do you create change? Do you lead, watch, take part or just shout loudly?

All of these activities have their place in campaigning for change and shifting the status quo or addressing a wrong.

国产视频 President Sarah Brown brings the聽second series of聽her聽Better Angels podcast聽to a close by talking to the former president of Tanzania,聽Jakaya Kikwete;聽New York Times columnist and author聽Nicholas Kristof; British comedian聽Nish Kumar;聽补苍诲听Toos Heemskerk-Schep, an anti-trafficking activist from the Netherlands.

You can listen to the full episode here国产视频�

Sarah says everyone can be an activist. She adds:聽国产视频淧eople from all walks of life, all countries, all professions can get involved.国产视频�

Jakaya Kikwete was Tanzania国产视频檚 president from 2005 to 2015 and was also president of the African Union in 2008-09. He had to oversee massive change in the East African country 国产视频� and is particularly proud of the progress on education.

He tells Sarah:聽国产视频淚 have a passion for growth. One of the things that is critical for the growth of a nation is education.国产视频�

When he became leader, only 6% of children were going on from primary to secondary school.

国产视频淪o we had to catch up,国产视频� he says. 国产视频淚f you want to create a middle class you have got to go beyond primary school.

国产视频淲ell, it worked. It was amazing. The student population increased in secondary school from 524,000 to 1.9 million.国产视频�

Kikwete says Tanzania is now 国产视频渄oing justice to our children and our young people.国产视频�

Nicholas Kristof has written a lot聽about human and women国产视频檚 rights 国产视频� 补苍诲听won two Pulitzer Prizes for his journalism.

Sarah asks him about the balance between聽being an independent observer 补苍诲听wanting to bring about change.

国产视频淚 write about issues that bother me and where I think it can make a difference,国产视频� he says.

国产视频淚 think that it国产视频檚 about being transparent and disclosing. I also think that it is about recognising where your comparative advantage lies.

国产视频淚 do think that where I add value is in writing about problems, not in helping individuals here and there.

国产视频淏ut I also think that if I come across a child who is dying of malaria I国产视频檓 not going to sit back and pull out my pad and camera and chronicle the child国产视频檚 death when I can take that child to the local hospital.国产视频�

How does laughter help when you国产视频檙e discussing the need for聽change? That国产视频檚 the question Sarah puts to Nish Kumar when she catches up with him in Edinburgh during his latest comedy tour.

He confesses that聽he is wrestling with how to give his audience what they want to hear about today国产视频檚 issues but also to more personally as an activist 国产视频� particularly on the issue of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union.

国产视频淚国产视频檒l continue writing and performing comedy but the next step for me is to actually start putting my money where my mouth is and start turning up to demonstrations,国产视频� he says.

国产视频淲e are at a tipping point politically 国产视频� it国产视频檚 starting to come to a point where we could end up on the wrong side of history if we don国产视频檛 pull our finger out.国产视频�

Sarah has some very interesting tips for Nish on how he can focus his activism. Listen to the full podcast to find out what she suggests.

Toos Heemskerk-Schep is country director of聽Not For Sale. Sarah speaks to her in a noisy聽Amsterdam cafe where the charity聽provides culinary training for victims of trafficking.

She asks Toos how the wider community can become engaged in projects like this.

国产视频淪o often we think that those type of activities needs to be done by social workers,国产视频� says Toos.

国产视频淏ut we are so grateful in the Netherlands now that we have so many businesses wanting to have a social corporate responsibility. They give time to us.

国产视频淲e have law firms who give their time in order to help us with all kinds of different papers and documents. We have bookkeepers who give us time in helping us with the bookkeeping. We have companies who open up their doors for internships for the women 国产视频撀燼nd this is huge.

国产视频淲e can train, we can educate a woman 国产视频撀燽ut they need to go out there and they need to get back that confidence in normal businesses. That国产视频檚 really what it国产视频檚 all about. We should really join all those forces together.国产视频�

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To subscribe via iTunes from this page, hit the iTunes icon above.

If you are on a desktop, you国产视频檒l need to select 国产视频榁iew in iTunes国产视频� and once the iTunes programme is open, you国产视频檒l be able to switch on a subscription.

Alternatively, if you have a podcast player that subscribes via RSS, you can click the RSS icon on any episode or use this link to get a full feed of all the episodes.